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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
You're listening to the Grazing
Grass Podcast, episode 107.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220: If
you sell something, you have to replace,
otherwise you just had a liquidation sale
You're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories
of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
Cal: You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's show we have Doug Ferguson, Mr.
Cattle Master.
We discuss his farm
and sell buy marketing.
He does have some classes coming up,
but not until this fall and winter, so
I'm sure you'll want to check those out.
They're at his website MrCattleMaster.
com.
It's a wonderful conversation
and I hope you enjoy it.
Let's talk to Doug.
Track 1: Doug, we want to welcome
you to the grazing grass podcast.
We're excited.
You're here today.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Thanks for having me on Cal.
I've listened to past episodes
and I appreciate the opportunity.
Track 1: Thank you for listening.
I appreciate that.
To get started, Doug, can you
tell us a little bit about
yourself and your operation?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Sure.
I grew up in Southeast Nebraska, family
farm, and it was, pretty conventional.
type deal, commercial cow calf.
Back then they used to finish all the
calves, take them to the Omaha stockyards.
So I am barely old enough
to remember the stockyards.
When the stockyards closed, they, dad
and grandpa actually just then went to
backgrounding and they would sell the
calves at a local sale barn, when they hit
800 pounds, which later I come to figure
out meant we're gonna sell the cows.
Sell the chores so that way we can go
plant and so there was also dry land
row crop So i'm also old enough to know
what cultivator blight is But I did the
4 h thing growing up like, you know A
lot of kids and I think that's where I
really fell in love with cattle sometime
when I was about a sophomore in high
School, I made up my mind that Raising
cattle is what I was going to do, for
a living, only, you know how it is Cal,
everybody tells you, oh, you can't make
a living doing it, you got to go to
college, get a degree, cattle or something
you do on evenings and weekends, right?
That was the paradigm that was
given to me, so I did go to
college for a brief period of time.
I met my best friend there, and that's an
important thing to mention, but I, Dropped
out of college after a few semesters to
focus more on riding bulls and uh, after
I quit riding bulls, I had a job in town
and I quit that too and this traveling
partner that I mentioned I met in college,
his dad called me, he owned a feed yard.
And he said, we can buy cattle where you
live cheaper than what we can buy them
where we live, which was northwest Iowa.
He said, would you be
interested in going to the sale
barn and buying cattle for us?
And I'm like yes, I would be more
than happy to go spend your money,
make a commission doing it, and drink
coffee and tell lies all day, right?
And it came with a stipulation
that I had to read this blog page.
And the blog was written by
Anne Barnhardt, who was teaching
the sell by marketing schools.
So that's where I fell
into sell by marketing.
I was introduced to it at that time.
So I'm a big believer in
the law of attraction.
And so here's what happened, Cal,
when I made up my mind when I was a
sophomore in high school, that I was
going to raise cattle for a living.
I committed to that idea and
I rejected everything else.
Everybody was telling me
that you couldn't do it.
If you say it can't be done,
I just won't listen to you.
But I got to
figure out a way sell by was that way.
And so it was the sell by marketing, which
enabled me to start my operation from
scratch, which stockers is my main focus.
I do some breeding stock, but
stockers is the main focal point.
I started that deal with 7, 000,
turned it into a seven figure business.
All because of sell by marketing.
Track 1: Oh, wow
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220: So
that's a short version of the journey, but
Track 1: So when you started reading
that blog by Ann, did it just immediately
click for you or it take you a little bit?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
She wrote in a way that it would get
you interested, but you didn't quite
fully grasp what she was talking about.
And the thing that was intriguing to me is
It was nothing that I'd ever heard before.
If everybody else is telling
me, Oh, this doesn't work.
Why would I listen to them?
Where she was writing and Oh
if you just do this, it works.
Track 1: Oh, yeah
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
And I'll tell you, Cal, I, it,
at that point in my life, the
tuition for her school is 500.
And at that point in my life, that was
the difference between buying propane
to heat the house or going to a school
and, Y'all know the decision that I
made and man, I tell you I don't
regret that decision one bit.
Track 1: So you went to school,
was that, or her school, was
that when you had started buying
cattle for that, your friends?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
It was right around that time I'd
say I probably was buying cattle
for them for about a year and a half
or maybe not even that long But there
were some other schools and they were
in Texas and places like that and
I'm like, yeah I'm not sure That just
seemed like a bit of a ways to go, and
then she did a school in Kansas City and,
Kansas City's three hours away from me.
It's you don't get any
closer to me than KC.
So that's the one that I went to.
And That one was such an
eye opening experience.
After that, whenever I decided if there
was something that I wanted to learn
and I could identify somebody that was
really good at it, I didn't care how far
I had to drive, that's where I was going.
It was just, that's just
the price you gotta pay.
Track 1: Let's talk about that for
just a moment because when you look
at these prices of schools to go
to, they can be pretty expensive.
I know I'm debating some schools to go
to and I, and it's a thought pattern
or, that's quite a bit of money to go.
Do I want to go?
I want to go, but do I want
to pay that much to go?
There's lots of resources online.
If I dedicate myself, can I just
figure it out without going?
Can you speak to that
dilemma just a little bit?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Yeah, and this is a question I get
quite a bit and, I always have to think
back to when I was on the other side
of that table, was a lot of money.
Like I said, it was either you buy
propane or you go to the school.
That's a heck of a decision to make.
And in the travel time, you have to
have assurances that it's worth it.
And I think that's
probably where I feel like.
Speaking from the other side of the table
now as a marketing school instructor,
I feel like what I have been able to
do with it lends that authenticity.
It's I have proven that the
stuff that I teach works
because it's what I do in my business.
So I can give you like, I can almost
give you that guarantee, but you have
to do the things in a certain way.
It's not one of these things that
if you're going to do sell by
marketing, you're half in half out.
It's not something you just play
around with or tip your toes in the
water on the shallow end a little bit.
It's like you have to do it.
So there has to be a commitment from the
people that come to the school as well.
And that's where things
get a little tougher, Cal.
Track 1: So if you're going to school,
you're spending a lot of money.
You've got to be committed
to following through.
It's not going to happen by osmosis.
You're not going to just absorb it and
it's going to be the fix all miracle.
But if you're going to have action items
that if you go home and follow the plan,
It can work for you.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Exactly.
Yep.
Track 1: So what do you encourage those
people or what would you tell them
to tell their wives to convince them?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Oh, that one.
Okay.
That one's a little bit tougher.
Track 1: That, that is a tougher one, yes.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
I, we, when we set up our schools,
when I say we, this, my, my wife
does all the behind the scenes work.
My schools would not happen without her.
And we set up a sliding fee scale
for the purposes of families.
And let's say, since you mentioned the
wife and that, that other role, it's okay.
The husband costs 750 the wife's
tuition would be 500, because we're
trying to encourage them to come
along.
And I feel like it's a lot easier
to probably bring her along to one
of these schools than maybe to screw
up and explain to her why you lost
six figures in the cattle business
Track 1: oh yeah,
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
cause then at least a lot of
times when the wives see it,
they're on board now on my Mr.
Cattlemaster Facebook page, I try
to post testimonials every Tuesday.
I get a lot of feedback, a lot
of text messages every week.
And the one that I posted this week,
the guy's yeah, my wife is sick
and tired of hearing about cattle
squares, but we're making money.
Track 1: oh
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220: I'm
like, yep, she'll get on board real soon.
Track 1: oh yeah.
Making money will help solve some of
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
It, it does.
It does.
Track 1: From the school, you
went to the school put on by Ann.
Did you go home and implement this?
You mentioned earlier 7,
000 you got started with.
Is that when you got started?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
I, I started several years before
I went to the school and, I think I
did, it was, how do I explain this?
It was very similar to sell by
marketing, but I was doing the break
even thing and our local sale barn
had fat cattle auctions at the time.
So I would buy these little
reject piece of crap.
Type cattle, bought
the junk.
Nobody wanted, 'cause it
was all I could afford.
And then I fed 'em till they were fat.
So I owned them for a year and
it was working really great.
So what I did was, is I was
like, okay, fat cattle price
is probably gonna be this.
And then well, I know I'm
not gonna get that price.
So I back it up a little bit and then
I'm like something else happened and
my cost of gain won't be as cheap.
So by the time I did all
these Murphy's loss scenarios.
into this break even equation.
I mean it left me to where
I was buying the junk.
So I was identifying the really
undervalued cattle, but I didn't
understand the relationships.
So when I went to Ann's school
and she explained all that, I
could see the relationships.
And I feel like I should probably
mention this, Cal, because
I get this question a lot.
When I teach my schools, I start
with what has gotten to be known as
the psychology lesson, where I talk
about paradigms, where we get them,
and how we have to change them.
And people have asked me a
lot of times how did I absorb
sell by marketing so easily?
I didn't have an existing paradigm.
If everybody
was telling me, Oh this way doesn't work.
I didn't accept doing it that way, so
I didn't have that existing paradigm,
so I was really open to the idea.
And so then when I did go to Ann's
school, I was able to come home and
just implement it like a duck to water.
It just felt so natural.
And I also feel like I
need to mention this story.
I had a, there was a group, I think
there was like roughly 40 some head of
heifers in this group, and they were what
I nicknamed like the diamond cutters.
These are the cattle that can walk by
the bunk and just throw on a pound, just.
By getting
within 10 feet of it, they just, so
if they're gaining weight like that,
the cost of gain is really cheap.
And Oh man, these cattle
are doing really good.
I can't sell them.
I got to keep putting
weight on them, right?
Right there, I just failed the first
lesson and I took them over one of those
price cliffs where I actually held onto
those cattle till they were undervalued
Track 1: Oh
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
that just because they were doing so good.
So I missed that part of the concept
and so I finally sold those heifers.
I called Ann and I'm like, okay, I
sold these heifers, but I can't find
a buyback and she's what were they?
What'd they weigh?
And I told her she just starts screaming
at me on the phone and I get everybody's
listening to this on a podcast, but to
illustrate it, I'm holding the phone arms
length away from my ear and I can still
hear her screaming and cussing at me.
Track 1: Yes.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
And so the market actually
went down two weeks later.
I got the buyback done and I never
made that same mistake since.
At that point then I realized,
okay, it is up to me to do this.
Pay attention, make no excuses when
the cattle are overvalued to sell them.
And so I trade very aggressively
and I think that's a big key to
been a big key to my success.
Track 1: Before we, we dive
into that a little bit more.
You're mainly a stalker operation now.
Do you go into the year with the plan
that you're going to buy 400 pound
calves and you're going to sell whatever
weight calves, stockers or fats later?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220: No.
And I had a conversation with a Canadian
earlier this week and, got to be one of
those conversations where if you want
to make God laugh, tell him your plan,
and I had a plan.
Monday, Cal, I went into our local
auction and I'm like I need about
two dozen head of these six weight
males, steers or bulls didn't matter,
but I need, maybe a gooseneck load
of them to finish up another deal.
And then I was going to start
buying some heifers and I thought,
okay yeah, six weight heifers were
really undervalued the week before.
So that's probably
where I'm going to land.
And I tell you what, there were
two guys showed up this local sale.
And the prices that they were
paying for six weight cattle
were just absolutely stupid.
And the backup plan then would
have been to buy four weights.
The four weights they had in
the offering weren't very good.
So then it's okay I get on my phone, got
a network of people, call some buyers.
What do you see and where you're at?
Buyers like I can get you a load of six
weight heifers delivered for this price.
So that's what I ended up doing.
So my plan, all my plans
I had that day went.
Right
out the window, and under an hour.
I also, I don't spend any time at
the beginning of the year doing
any type of cashflow projections.
If I just stay with stockers, I could do
it and probably be fairly accurate just
cause I've been doing this for 20 years.
But a couple of years ago on Sunday,
I had no intention of buying cows.
And on Monday, I was one of the largest
cow calf operators in the county.
I
just had I was sitting on the internet
and I just kept hitting the click to bid
buy button and kept calling the dispatcher
telling him to send me another truck.
Doing things like that would
have just totally blew my cash
flow projection to pieces.
Track 1: oh yes,
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
So I think probably the shorter
answer to your question is I
take what the market gives me.
Track 1: right.
Have you found, so you've been doing
this a number of years, how has you,
how have you evolved over the years?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
That's a really deep question, Cal.
I think probably to answer the question,
the way that most of your listeners
would resonate with is a lot of times
the feedback I get from people that
have been to my schools is sell by
marketing has changed their life.
And, I know after I went through
the school it changed mine.
You can see these price
relationships exist, and you can take
advantage of those relationships.
You can prosper yourself, and when I
say prosper We're generating positive
cashflow and you can do that no matter
if the market is going up or down because
what the cattle square, this algebraic
equation that we use to determine
these relationships shows us is the
ratio of dollars to pounds on a trade.
So even though the market could be
deflating, so take 2015, for example,
we had that big crash in the fall.
I loved it.
I even, Really enjoyed the
COVID shutdown when that market
had that meltdown right
there for a couple of months.
I did some fantastic trades.
The cash flow was.
So these relationships show us
how we can do that no matter if
the market's going up or down.
And when you can do that,
you can stay current on your
bills, and things like that.
And it really takes a huge weight.
If you're in this business,
you're an entrepreneur.
And boy, I tell you, when you're an
entrepreneur, Cal, as you already
know, you are in the crap every day.
Every day.
Every problem comes right to your
doorstep and you have to deal with it.
There's none of this.
That ain't my job, go talk
to this guy over here.
It all lands on you.
So it sell by helps alleviate
some of those burdens.
I got a testimonial from a guy
in Kansas this year who he had
to call cows due to the drought.
And one of the things I talk about
in school is don't just liquidate
You know, let's do some trades.
And so it was one of those, we're going
to reduce weight, we're going to get
rid of these 14, 1500 pound cows, and
we're going to buy these lightweight
stockers so we can go head per head,
but we can still have that reduction
on You know what I'm trying to say, the
pounds per acre or the cow, the little
calves won't eat as much as the cows.
That's what
I'm trying to say.
And so he did that.
Of course, then, this summer, the
stocker market just, it skyrocketed.
So he sold these calves for big money.
He sold them at the end of the
summer when the breeding market
was still in the summer slump.
So he sold cows, went to stockers,
sold stockers, went back to cows.
And he bought some fall calving
animals, calved them, sold them as
pairs, almost doubled his money.
And
Track 1: yes.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
so right there doing just several trades
that he was pushed into doing because
of the drought generated better cashflow
than he's had on a lot of previous years.
And he's doing it in
the middle of a drought.
Track 1: Oh
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
That, that guy is absolutely
tickled right now.
Track 1: And how does what, had
he been doing some of that before
or had he always been just running
cows and the drought forced his
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220: This
was, he was your very conventional type
cow calf producer, calved early in the
This time of year, because we got to be
done calving before
the corn planter rolls.
And, and then
we wean calves after corn harvest is over.
We background them and then
we sell them and, repeat.
And, the cow had 10
years to pay for herself.
And, then you sell her
as a colt cow and keep a
heifer to replace her.
That was that kind of operation.
You talk about a guy that,
Shattered some paradigms.
Oh my gosh.
I mean, and like you
mentioned the wife earlier,
Track 1: Yes.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
could you imagine what
she was probably thinking?
Track 1: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
This guy went to Nebraska to this
marketing school and he lost his mind.
And of course, then it turned out
really well in the end, but, that,
that had to have been extremely
difficult for him to do those things.
And I don't know if he'd have been
able to do it if it wasn't because
of the drought forced his hand.
Track 1: Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, just in transparency, what my
dad and I do here, dad's got a cow
herd, I've got a cow herd, but we have
traditionally And, um, we start to have
some of these conversations about maybe
that's not the best use of our forages,
our operation, but we've done it this way.
And I say this, I, and I hate even
saying this because I like to think
I, I read, I'm knowledgeable, I
try things, I do stuff a little bit
different than most people around here,
but still, yeah, I'm calving out cows.
And Dad's heard, and we've done it that
way for years, and we've talked about we
may want to move to stockers, we may want
to do something else, but we haven't.
And to the story you told, the drought
is what pushed that person there.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Yeah,
You stir up some thoughts in my
head and that's, and that's the
beauty of doing these things.
I like doing things like this
off the cuff because I feel like
they're more organic for people
that get to listen.
So I mentioned earlier My
family had commercial cow calf.
So one thing that my dad and I did
was we had a buy in program for me.
And so I had, I don't know,
a handful of cows of my own.
And what we did was, is every
time a cow was culled, dad
got the check for that cow.
And then we kept a heifer and it was mine.
Track 1: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
I'm buying in, I'm paying expenses
on these cows, but there was no cash
flow because I was keeping heifers.
So the only money I had from the cow
herd was really from selling steers.
Track 1: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
And so I had my stocker deal on the
side and I was still working some off
the farm day help type jobs, fencing
for a neighbor, driving a truck.
Truck for a local
contractor, things like that.
And when I finally got to the point
that I think I own somewhere around
85, 90 percent of the cow herd
at the time, I took a look at the
business and I had enterprised it out.
The cows were making money.
The stockers were making money.
But what I based the decision on to sell
the cow's cow was I was looking at the
hours, That I was putting in to each
enterprise and I was putting less hours
into the stockers and making money.
And so it was, going back to the
old paradigm of trading time for dollars.
I was getting paid more
per hour doing stockers.
And so I talked to mom and dad
and I'm like, Hey, thinking
about selling the cows.
And they're like you own most
of them do what you want.
So I sold the cows for the next couple
of years at just about every holiday.
People were a little bit cold towards
me, when the, the family holidays, they
Got a little bit cold towards me come
to find out later, everybody was pissed
that I sold the cows, even though
I owned them.
Because if I was a part of the family
operation, which I don't consider myself
be a part of the family operation, cause
I don't farm, I just do this cattle
thing and they're all liquidated out.
I would be somewhere around the 5th
or 6th generation on this place.
So I, so all those previous
generations had owned cows, and
then I'm the jerk that sold them.
Track 1: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
And so like when you mentioned,
yeah, my dad and I've always done
this and we've thought about this.
It's there's some other things
to think about there too.
And I, what do they call that tradition?
I seen this once.
And I'm sure you've seen the meme too.
Tradition is peer
pressure from dead people.
I've experienced that, man.
I
know what that's about.
Track 1: Yeah.
Yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
I'm not, it's just one of those
things you got to be aware of and
probably have that discussion.
Track 1: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Very good point.
I want to shift gears just a little bit.
We're going to come back
and talk more about sell by.
I'd be amiss not to talk
about grazing management on
the Grazing Grass podcast.
So tell us about how you manage
grazing for one thing in particular,
you're bringing in different classes
of livestock at different times.
How's that affect your
infrastructure and what you're doing?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Okay.
So I, years ago, I didn't own any pasture.
Everything was leased.
And, so I had the traditional lease
that, you can come on in May and you
got to be off September, October.
In the fall through the winter months,
I have cattle in backgrounding pens.
I got the feed lot tile style
type operation.
I got the ground hay, the silage.
We do that kind of deal.
Then in the spring, I go back
to grass with those set of
calves that I have at that time.
And I like it Cal because I'm not.
Doing the same thing all the time, like
right now it's snowing here I'm getting
tired of fighting snow drifts and mud
and cattle in the pens and I'm ready to
get back out to grass By the end of the
summer, I'm sick and tired of polywire.
I'm ready to have chores every day again.
So It fits my personality.
Now, I think to get into your question
everything was, what do you call it?
It's continuous grazed,
everything just set stock.
You turn this many pairs out and
they're out there for this many months
and, and that's just what it is.
Pasture was a babysitting service
for cattle, so that way you
could go farm during the summer.
And I had read books, so this
kind of leads into your book
question, about rotational grazing.
I didn't understand any of it.
I felt like the authors didn't
know anything more about it than
I did, which was nothing, but
I did finally bite the bullet.
I did a little experiment one
year with pigtails and poly wires,
and I started moving some calves.
And so I put them through these,
I call them groves, the little
wood lots that you can't mow,
but you want them trampled down.
Put them in some waterways.
And I absolutely thought pigtails
and poly wires are the stupidest
thing ever on the planet.
And I'm going to lose these calves
and they're going to be out in
a neighbor's cornfield and it's
going to be an ugly insurance deal.
Track 1: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
It worked really well.
The calves never got out.
In fact, they really got in a routine
that when I backed the trailer up, they
knew it was time to get on the trailer.
Cause we're going to go
to some place better.
But that was the year.
I want to say maybe 2011 is when the
Missouri River flooded really bad.
So it
was a good rain year here that
year So I saw this regrowth now.
I have different questions.
I have different thoughts.
I went back reread all those books Oh
they meant something different to me
this time.
And all of a sudden the author
got really brilliant, just,
the second time reading it.
And I think it goes back to one
of those deals, when you read it,
the second time you see something
in yourself or there's something
inside yourself that wasn't there.
So you perceive the book differently.
So then 2012, when that drought hit here
that year, just like it did everywhere
else, um, I went in on pigtails and
polywires on half of my pastures.
What I did that year was I thought
oh, this is gonna be so laborious
moving all these posts and
Track 1: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
So I zigzagged wires over the entire
pastures and left them And so the cattle
would be in this cell for a week and
then in the next cell the other week
So now I have to interject this part.
The landlord was Um, he was
really into ag chemicals.
He was a farmer through and through.
Got this big self propelled
sprayer and spray tanks on foiler.
So he liked to go out there
and drive around and spray.
And I think a lot of the traffic
from those ATVs and sprayers damaged
the grass more than what he was
actually trying to help improve it.
With all those fences strung all over
his place and no gates, cause the
reel was the gate, there's no gates.
He didn't go out and spray that year.
He was.
angry with me.
Track 1: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
But that year then, I, after that, I
had, I'd figured some more things out.
So I had to make the cell smaller and
I had to get a K line and a portable
water tank and do some things like that.
So that's what I did.
So I made the cell smaller, more frequent
rotation, started piping water out there.
The weeds went away.
Track 1: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
The weeds went
away, that herd effect and given the
pasture, the difference between rest and
recovery, we started growing more grass,
those bare spots started filling in
and.
If there was one thing I really messed
up is I should have took pictures
and I should have documented it,
Track 1: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
And the other neat thing is the landlords
one of them passed away now but they
really liked what I was doing because I
combined all the cattle into two different
herds, so I just graze in two big herds.
So if I'm renting 160 acres from
you and I rotate those cattle around
160 acres, Then I get them out of
there and I go to the next pasture.
So then if your grandkids come over and
want to go fishing, you don't have to
worry about the cattle being out there.
You don't have to
worry about if I remember
to shut the gate.
The landlords loved it.
I was in and out and then
gone and out of their hair.
And here's your rent check.
It was fantastic for everybody.
Track 1: Very good.
I know with some lease property I have
that's one thing they like because the
hunters are coming in there and What,
a year ago, I had a poly braid up.
It's only happened once, which
I'm actually surprised, the hunter
drove straight through it, popped my
poly braid, they never even saw it.
But But by moving the cattle and
keeping them bunched up over multiple
properties, it gives that opportunity
for them to have access to that land.
And to be honest, I have this 180
leased out to this family for hunting.
They are up there all the time.
There's always something they're
up there for, which works out good.
It works out good for all of us.
But they're either hunting for
sheds, they're hunting for mushrooms
they're checking for wild hogs
because they think they should, they
are getting ready for deer hunting.
Deer hunting is a whole process.
They're up, I'm, they're up there a lot.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Yeah.
And you're not in the way.
Track 1: Yeah, which is really nice.
So You mentioned there K
Line and portable waters.
Do you have the K Line irrigation system?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Not, no, I just use, I got hydrants.
Track 1: Oh, okay.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
so you're asking about the pods, right?
Track 1: Yeah, the pods.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
No, I don't have the pods.
It's just basically I use the hose.
Track 1: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
it, it pipes the water from the
hydrant to where I set the tank.
And, as you and your listeners
know, water's going to be your
biggest challenge when you start
Track 1: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
These poly wires and so by being
able to do that, I can get water it's
accessible anywhere on 160 acres.
I've got enough K line that I can.
Connect together and then move that tank.
So the, probably the biggest argument
against what we do is, grass farmers is,
from the conventional world is, Oh my
gosh, that takes so much time to do that.
And you got to go move the cows.
But these are the same guys that
will load a feed wagon and, haul that
out there, like here in southeast
Nebraska, and I'm sure it's the same
where you live Cal, they'll haul a
bale six miles down the road to put
out in this pasture on the grass.
Okay, I just told you earlier
that I feed cattle twice a
day when they're in my pens.
I know how long it takes to feed,
fill a feed wagon and feed them, and then
I got to go back at the end of the day,
fill the feed wagon and feed them again.
Believe me, it takes a lot less
time to move a poly wire and a water
line than it does to fill a feed
wagon and feed cows twice a day.
Track 1: I agree.
I talk to these farmers who they
spend half their day going around
to different pastures feeding hay,
feeding cattle, checking cattle.
And I'm, yeah, it's, it doesn't take me
as much time as you think it's going to
take, but it's that paradigm shift because
that's the way they've always done it,
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220: Yep.
Track 1: which
is really difficult.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
And then not to mention the added
benefits of, like I said, I had one
of those paradigm changes, like I
mentioned, there was nothing stupider
than pigtails and poly wires.
And now it's I think they're a pretty
fantastic tool because when you use them.
Like this year we went through a
drought and everybody's hauling
hay and I'm just rotating cattle.
That's the reason Cal sometimes
a lot of the reason Guys like
us have grass in years like this
Track 1: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
So I had a big paradigm change
there but And I'll mention this too
people Sometimes they'll you know,
oh, what you got to retrain though.
You got it.
You got to train stalkers to that fence
every year and they think it's going
to be like some big major catastrophe.
When I break them to the hot
wire, I use the heavy, what is it?
The heavy poly braid,
the really thick, highly
visible stuff.
They can see real easy.
And I make that thing hot.
Like
you'll see the spark fly.
Track 1: Yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
for the first couple, maybe the first.
Two or three moves.
That thing is hot.
And then I have a hard time
actually getting them to
cross it, like when I do move.
Track 1: Yes.
Yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
So it isn't a matter of training
them not to run through the fence.
It's more of a matter of getting them to
trust you that, when I push you towards
it, it's not always going to bite you.
It may not always be there.
Then once they get that figured
out, they'll just, Hey, where are
you going to roll that spool back?
We're ready to move.
Track 1: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
So training stockers to those
poly wires, isn't as hard
as, People make it out to be.
Track 1: I found anytime I brought
cattle in, getting them used
to hot wires not too difficult.
Now I do have one issue right now.
I bought some horned cows,
brought them in, and I've got
one that's hopping my fence.
And I just saw something
the other day on Facebook.
And so the way I usually manage that
is I just haul them back to town.
I don't deal with hoppers.
But I saw something on one of the
groups the other day that talked about
putting two Polywire is about two foot
apart, just down, and it messes, because
cattle's death perception can be a little
off, that'll cause them not to jump it.
I'm about to try that and see
if that solves her problem
before she gets loaded up.
Oh
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
I've heard that before too, and I had a
heifer here a few years ago that was a
jumper, and I don't think she ever went
through where I rolled the spool back.
She always jumped the
fence when we rotated.
Even when I had, five six wire
barbed wire fences, she jumped those.
She would jump out of the pasture,
be grazing on the roadside ditch.
My neighbors are all corn farmers.
So they see this cow out, or she
was like a six, seven way heifer.
She's out, they freak out.
She's going to get in there and
destroy, you know, their, all their
irrigated corn in an afternoon,
Track 1: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
And I'll tell you the funny thing
about the heifer cow was they w they
would freak out and I would be like,
if they called me on their phone, I'd
be like, are you on your side by side?
And they're like, yeah, I don't mind.
Get out of your side by side, stand up.
And the minute she would see them stand
on the ground, she'd jump back in the
Like I really don't need
to come put her back in.
Track 1: oh yeah, that's funny.
Doug, let's transition back to
sell by marketing, our overgrazing
section, where we take a deeper dive
into something about your operation.
And let's talk about sell by marketing.
We covered on it just a little
bit at the beginning, but just
tell us what sell by marketing is.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
So yeah, I've got two definitions and.
One of them, the short one is it's
a real time cashflow reckoning.
So what it means is we can see
relationships in real time as they exist.
And these algebraic equations that
we use to determine whether or not
an animal is over or undervalued
those equations have to balance.
And so that's the reckoning
part means that, everything's
going to be accounted for.
It's going to balance.
The longer definition is it
is a continuum of inventory.
liquidation and replenishment,
generated cashflow and profit.
So if I break that down,
it has to be a continuum.
If you sell something, you
have to replace, otherwise you
just had a liquidation sale
and went out of business,
Right,
So with the stockers or fat cattle,
it's pretty, pretty obvious.
You sell a stock or you buy a stock or you
sell fats, you buy replacement stockers.
If you are a cow calf herd, that
replacement animal can be the calf
that the cow will give birth to next.
So there's your replenishment.
Track 1: oh yeah,
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Your continuum and your
replenishment on that deal.
So that definition is set
in the way that it is.
So it is a continuum of
inventory liquidation.
That's your sell and
replenishment is your buy.
The next part is generating cashflow.
So when you sell something
again, the sell is first.
So when you sell something, you
generate cashflow and then the final
part of that definition and profit.
So you capture your profit when you
replace the beauty of that is that by
that replacement is the only thing we
have control over as painful as this
is for a lot of people.
And, and some of your listeners, got
to bear with me here for a second.
We think we try to create these markets
and, we add value to these animals.
And so if you're in the
direct marketing business.
You absolutely can do that.
I'm talking about just the plain
commodity cattle business here.
So we're price takers and
so we have no control over that but what
we do have control is on the buy so You
go back to like I was mentioning earlier
this week at our local cattle auction.
I knew I was getting skunked But what
those guys were willing to pay for cattle
they were I was getting skunked So it's
okay, the smartest thing for me to do
is leave this sale You with an empty
trailer, tap into my network of buyers
and let them go find something for me.
I
exercised my control and in case
anybody's curious how that ended up
I captured a pretty handsome profit.
I'm pretty proud of myself this week.
Track 1: oh very good.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
That's the beauty of sell by marketing.
It gives us that control.
Track 1: When you're selling
and then you're, you've got
to go back and buy something.
What kind of time period
are you looking at there?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
I would say this and I'm going to
give you two different answers.
We try to keep that window
very narrow just so the market
doesn't have a chance to move.
So you're selling into the market and
you're buying back in the same market.
And so there's that.
With buy sell marketing, which is what
most people tend to think of, I buy this
animal, I hold it for a period of time,
hope I sell it for more than I have in
it, run a breakeven, your exposure to
risk is the time that you own the animal.
With sell buy marketing, your
exposure to risk is the time
between the sell and the buy.
And we can keep that
window very narrow if we
choose to do the other thing is we're, we
teach people to keep that window narrow.
Right now is a perfect example.
You sell a potload of cattle.
That's 180, 000.
If you got 180, 000 in the bank, you're
probably pretty tempted to go buy
something else, new pickup or something.
So if you
turn around and reinvest those
dollars right away back in the
cattle business, there, there's
your inventory liquidation and
replenishment, the whole continuum thing.
Track 1: And you bring up a good point
and that, that's always an issue.
If the money's sitting in the bank,
it has a tendency to leave the bank.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
One way or another.
Track 1: Yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Yeah.
Track 1: if you're not buying
something to turn around later on,
you may be buying something that's
going to depreciate on you or
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Exactly.
Track 1: Earlier, you're identifying those
overvalued animals, undervalued animals.
How are you identifying them?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
we have been taught, Cal, that the
way to run a profitable business
is to keep our expenses low.
And as long as these animals worth
more than we have in them, we can
capture a positive gross margin.
The market goes up and down.
So if the market goes down, we just blew
the whole gross margin thing to pieces.
If that's the only metric that we're
going to use to look at now, the reason
we need to know what our costs are
is that cost that determines those
relationships, the lower that your cost of
production is, it is going to make more.
It's going to provide an opportunity
for more animals to be undervalued.
The higher your cost is, it will
start to disqualify a lot of
animals as being undervalued.
That's the importance of cost.
So in my marketing schools, I
have a slide that illustrates this
and, people we learn and we think.
We've all used a crowbar, and so we
know that if we want to use this pry
bar and move something, that fulcrum,
that pivot point has to be closer to
the thing that we're trying to move,
so that way we have more leverage
to pull.
That would be a low cost situation.
If we move that fulcrum away from the
load and closer to where we're pulling on
the bar, we don't have as much leverage.
That's
what managing cost does.
Is it a low cost gives us more
ability to buy back in a market
because we have more leverage.
That's probably about the best
way that I can explain it.
So using, keeping your costs low and
then using these algebraic equations
will spit out those relationships.
And it's, it's all, fourth,
fifth grade level math.
Track 1: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Anybody can do it.
Track 1: And where do you suggest them
gaining more information about doing this?
I'm, obviously,
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
That's a softball question.
Yeah, go to mrcattlemaster.
com and I've got a school
coming up in April.
It's going to fill up here pretty soon.
And where my wife and I are in
discussions now, we got to set
up some dates for later in 2024.
So it'll probably be late
summer, fall, winter.
I can tell you right now,
Cal, we're not going to do any
schools in the summer this year.
We're going to take the summer
Track 1: Oh, yeah.
Now, do you typically do your schools in
Nebraska or are they spread out further?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
We do, most of them are right here
in Beatrice, Nebraska, where we live.
I'm in the same boat everybody else is.
It's really hard for me to get
chore help and, raising the
kid.
And, the kid's kind of a, I don't know, I
guess she's a big time basketball player.
She plays on two, three different
teams pretty much year round.
We stay here for that.
So when I do schools, I actually feed
cattle in the mornings, like four o'clock.
Then I run into town, I teach
the school, and after school's
over, then I run back to the farm
and feed cattle again at night.
I don't
sleep much when we're doing the
schools, but we do try to do
one school on the road a year.
We've done schools in Oklahoma City,
we've done some in other parts of
Nebraska, Deadwood, South Dakota.
So we're trying to find a place to have a
school this year, somewhere on the road.
Track 1: No, very good.
Before we move to famous four
questions, you have anything else to
add or that you would like to add?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Probably going back to the question you
asked where you can learn more about it.
I do have a weekly market
commentary called Doug's Market
Intel on Beef Magazine's website.
And, that's what I write about on there is
what I saw in the marketplace this week.
And kind of some thoughts and things
that I'm seeing, in sale barn.
So that would be another good
resource to learn about it.
Otherwise, man I'm ready
to move on for your
Track 1: One
question there.
How much or how often
do you go to Sell Barn?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
not as often as I would like.
But you, and that's a good
question you bring up.
People think, oh man, if I'm
going to do this, I got to be
in the sale barn all the time.
No, you don't, you don't
even have to go there.
If you don't like being in that
environment, you Need to forge a
relationship with a good cattle buyer.
I would go to auctions six days a
week if I could, just cause I love it.
But, at the schools and being a dad and
trying to raise cattle, I can't be there.
So I'm going maybe about twice a week
Is all I do.
And I can do really well just doing that.
Now, the other thing, I feel like I
have to mention so that is clear to
some of your listeners because like
I think state of Nevada only has
two sale barns in the entire state.
I have a
couple dozen of them within about
an hour and a half of my place and I
haven't even been to half of them yet.
Track 1: Oh,
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Just when you have that many you know
you got two or three selling on the
same day and you know I go to the
barns where I feel like
I can do the best at.
Track 1: I know for me, I
love going to a cell barn.
We went to a cell barn so much as a kid.
I'm taken right back there.
Gotta get a burger there.
Donuts on the way.
It's just the way we do the cell barn.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220: Yep.
Track 1: It's time for
our famous four questions.
Same four questions we
ask of all of our guests.
Our first question, what is your favorite
grazing grass related book or resource?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
I mentioned my relationship with the
books earlier and Cal I don't feel
like I'm going to mention a book
that, previous guest already hasn't
mentioned, but just touch back on that.
Remember I said that when I reread
those books the second time I saw
something different in them, but I feel
like probably the biggest influence
that I had was from a Canadian
grazer by the name of Neil Dennis.
Some of the first grazing
books that I read were the
Allen Nation books and wasn't
He was from Mississippi Wasn't
he or somewhere down there?
And I'm okay, and I did the
whole X paradigm thing You know
the existing paradigm of okay.
Yeah, this guy can do this in,
Mississippi But you can't do
that in Nebraska because it
snows here, right.
Track 1: Yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220: so
this Canadian Neil Dennis gave a grazing
speech, I don't know, it's probably like a
six hour, deal that he, they put on here.
And he's showing pictures of these stocker
cattle even, grazing through the snow
and he's moving these poly wires and
he's doing all this stuff and I'm going,
oh crap, if they can do it in Canada,
I, I mean he took all my excuses away.
Track 1: Yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
I feel like.
Being around somebody like him
really took my excuses away,
challenged my thinking process.
And it's like, all right doggone it.
We got to go try this.
Track 1: Yeah.
That'll do that.
Yeah.
Our second question.
What is your favorite tool for the farm?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Oh man.
You even sent me the list of the
four questions and I've heard.
Previous podcasts, the four
questions, the favorite tool.
First off, I don't like tools.
Cause if I got to use tools, it usually
means something's broke, but I would
be so off balance Cal, if I didn't
have my pocket knife with me.
Track 1: Oh, yes.
There you go.
Yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
as bad as I hate to admit this, being
as anti technology as I am, I think
I'd be lost without my phone, just
because I can pull the other day when
I told you I got skunked at that sale,
the first thing I did was pull my
phone out, log into DV Auction and
start watching cattle sales in a
different state, right there on my phone.
Track 1: It's amazing the power
technology has when it works.
There's a lot of other
things that go with it.
But yeah.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
So I'd say probably those two things.
Track 1: Excellent selections
there on your tools.
I'm always excited to hear
what people bring up as.
An important tool on their farm.
Our third question, would you
tell someone just getting started?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Thinking back on when I started
you gotta know how to make money.
Sell buy marketing can really
help with the cashflow.
The other thing I would probably
say, Cal, and I talk about
this in my marketing schools.
I used to challenge the paradigm
when people would say, you got to
learn to think outside of the box.
And I, and so I'd say who says there's
a box and why do you believe them?
Now that I'm a little bit older,
I realized there is a box.
It's very real.
And in this box, we have 24 hours a day.
There's only so much
money in the bank account.
You have a network of people.
You only have so much feed
available and things like that.
So if you learn how to manage
inventory well, You get to
bring more things into your box.
So I would highly recommend you
learn how to market animals and
you learn how to manage inventory.
The thing about sell buy, and I'll
probably mention this right here is we
can talk about grazing practices and
genetics and all these other sexy things
that people like to talk about, and
they always tie the word profit to them.
Profitable genetics, profitable grazing
practices.
But if you take those animals and you sell
them and you do a lousy job marketing them
and you sell them as undervalued animals,
those genetics and all that work you did
grazing just flew right out the window.
Track 1: true, yes.
Marketing has a tremendous
ability to affect the value
that you get for an animal.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Absolutely.
Track 1: And Doug, where can
others find out more about you?
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
Yeah.
So I've mentioned about everything
out that I've got going out there.
There's the Mr.
Cattlemaster Facebook page.
And then our website, mrcattlemaster.
com.
And then the Doug's Market Intel
on Beef Magazine's webpage.
And I might be jumping
the gun here a little bit.
I've got the emails in my inbox right now.
And so I've got to respond to
those and get some stuff done.
But I will probably start writing
some articles in Stockman Grass Farmer
coming up here in the near future.
Track 1: Oh, very good.
Excellent.
We'll put links to those resources
that are available now on the
show notes, so someone will
have an easy way to get there.
Doug, really appreciate you
coming on and sharing today.
squadcaster-jeg7_1_03-08-2024_100220:
I appreciate the opportunity, Cal.
Like I said, I've listened to the
show and I enjoy what you're doing
and not sure how much you're going
to use what we have recorded.
But yeah, I think there's a real
need for podcasts, and getting
messages out there and exposing
people to new and different ideas.
So thanks for what you do, Cal.
Cal: Thank you.
I appreciate that.
I really hope you enjoyed
today's conversation.
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